HoHum:
Begin by reading Luke 16:19-31
From Rick Kallstrom- A few years ago I preached a message on hell. After the service I walked to the back of the church to shake hands with members of the congregation as they left the church. One individual said to me, “Preacher, I never knew what hell was really like until I heard you preach!” I wonder what she meant by that?
Not talking about hell but the other place tonight.
WBTU:
We have been going backwards in discussing the church’s future. Began by discussing the church’s ultimate existence in the new creation, the New Jerusalem. This morning we discussed the return of Christ that will begin our existence in that new creation, then the resurrection of believers that will accompany the return of Christ. This question lingers in many minds:
Thesis: How and where do believers exist between their deaths and Jesus’ Second Coming?
For instances:
Immediately present with God
Upon our deaths, and before Christ’s return, we will dwell with God in a spiritual realm. I’m calling this the present heaven. Between our physical deaths and Christ’s return, we will exist without physical bodies.
Around the death of a loved one a Christian might ask where their loved one is right now. At that time unnessary to talk about Sheol, Hades, Soul Sleep or even the best Scripture found in Luke 16, the Rich Man and Lazarus. Take them to this and discuss Abraham’s side, torment, and the great chasm. Simpilist answer is found here: “We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.” 2 Corinthians 5:8, NIV. They are with the Lord and that is enough.
Even Bible is loose with using the term heaven. Sometimes “heaven” is talking about the intermediate state. Scripture provides only sketchy details of this heaven as it presently exists. Many questions surround Luke 16 the rich man and Lazarus. The streets of gold and the gates of pearl are describing the new creation, the New Jerusalem. The Bible does reveal, however, that God (Matthew 5:16), His angels (Matthew 18:10), and those believers who have died (2 Corinthians 5:1) presently live in heaven.
We do know that to be without a body is an undesired state. 2 Corinthians 5:1-4, NIV.
Barnes here says this about “be clothed with our heavenly dwelling”. “To be invested with our spiritual body. We desire to be clothed with that body. We desire to be in heaven (the new creation), and to be clothed with immortality. We wish to have a body that shall be pure, undecaying, ever glorious.” Even those in the “present heaven” are looking forward to resurrection day. Martin Luther said, “It would take a foolish soul to desire its body when it is already in heaven (the new creation).” Those in the present heaven desire a body.
Evidently a great deal hinges upon our being in a body. We are less than human if we are disembodied spirits. That we are born and grow and develop within a personal body that becomes a part of us is no accident.
Jesus came back from the dead in a body. “Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”” Luke 24:39, NIV. Many imagine that they can lay the body aside and carry on much better. When Paul preached the resurrection of the body to the Greek we see the results: “When they heard about the resurrection of the dead, some of them sneered, but others said, “We want to hear you again on this subject.”” Acts 17:32, NIV.
The soul is wedded to its body, and divorce of this bond is awful to any man or woman. Even though our present body is defiled, to go naked and bodiless is undesirable (2 Corinthians 5:4). For 3 days and 3 nights Jesus ceased to be full man (body and soul), but with the resurrection of his human body He reassumed his human identity, an identity which He will henceforth retain forever. No person is a whole person as a disembodied spirit: for man, the union of spirit and body is fundamental to the establishment of personal identity.
Daniel Overdorf- One afternoon I visited a friend in the hospital- Radford Morris. He suffered from multiple health issues, primarily related to his lungs and breathing. His health had worsened such that the doctors gave little hope of Radford living much longer. His condition led him to increasingly consider the hope of heaven. During our visit on this particular afternoon, Radford described a dream he experienced the night before. He envisioned himself as a small boy. He reached up and grasped a hand. He could not see the face of the one whose hand he held, but as he walked around he told everyone who would listen, “This is my daddy! This is my daddy!” He spoke not of his earthly father, but of walking hand in hand with God.
In some ways it would be wonderful to see the Second Coming and escort the Lord into the new creation. “Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed-- in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.” 1 Corinthians 15:51, 52, NIV.
Most of us will go to the present heaven. “I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.” Philippians 1:23, 24, NIV. Paul says that even if he does die he will “be with Christ.”
Heaven’s Worship
How do disembodied souls exist in the “Present Heaven”? Scripture that helps some:
1. We find this "But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.” Luke 16:25, NIV.
2. Read Revelation 6:9-11, NIV. Because these saints are dead, they are separated from their bodies; yet they maintain an individual identity as eternal souls. Like Lazarus and Abraham they know something about their status now and their status before on the earth. In their contact to God, they have direct communication and access. The tension between the now and not yet is seen in their cry, “How long?”
3. Revelation 14:11-13: This is also promised to the martyrs in 6:11. Unlike the idolatrous worshipers who receive no rest from their torments (vs. 11), the saints receive rest from their work of testifying for the Lamb.
We see a picture of the present heaven here: “At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it. And the one who sat there had the appearance of jasper and carnelian. A rainbow, resembling an emerald, encircled the throne. Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads. From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumblings and peals of thunder. Before the throne, seven lamps were blazing. These are the seven spirits of God. Also before the throne there was what looked like a sea of glass, clear as crystal. In the centre, around the throne, were four living creatures, and they were covered with eyes, in front and behind. The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like an ox, the third had a face like a man, the fourth was like a flying eagle. Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under his wings. Day and night they never stop saying: “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come.” Whenever the living creatures give glory, honour and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever, the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne, and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say: “You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honour and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being.”” Revelation 4:2-11, NIV.
N.T. Wright says that this is a vision of the “present heaven.” The new heaven and new earth come in Revelation 21 and 22. This is a vision of the heavenly dimension of present reality. This describes the worship that presently fills heaven- worship that continues day and night exalting the Lord God.
Two similar visions:
1. “In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of his robe filled the temple. Above him were seraphs, each with six wings: With two wings they covered their faces, with two they covered their feet, and with two they were flying. And they were calling to one another: “Holy, holy, holy is the LORD Almighty; the whole earth is full of his glory.” Isaiah 6:1-3, NIV.
2. Ezekiel 1 gives another vision of this heaven but avoid it. Grand vision but little worship
Isaiah’s vision from 700 BC, Ezekiel’s from 600 BC, and John’s from AD 90 have much in common, offering further evidence that in Revelation 4 John described heaven as it presently exists. Right now the inhabitants of heaven surround the throne of God, crying out in worship, “Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come.”” Revelation 4:8, NIV.
