6. SUPPOSED DISTINCTIONS
It is disappointing to read the works of men that are normally trustworthy in their treatment of Scripture, when it comes to their promotion of a pre-tribulation rapture. Consider our brother Dave Hunt, no lightweight in the Word. Over and over his publications define New Testament Christianity and its enemies. But on the subject at hand he falls woefully short of exemplifying his “Berean” philosophy. Brother Hunt sees distinctions between the rapture and the second coming, and describes them in his October 2003 Berean Call. I would like to comment on these distinctions, with the reminder that I mean absolutely no disrespect to this great man of the Word.
Distinction 1: At the rapture, says Dave Hunt, Christ does not return to earth, but at the second coming He does. As proof, he offers the words of Jesus in John 14:3: “I will...receive you unto myself that where I am you may be also.” Further, he quotes Paul (I Thessalonians 4:17): “...caught up to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
Certainly Brother Hunt does not suggest that Jesus remains suspended “in the air”, that is, the atmosphere above our earth constantly for those seven years. We all assume that at this point, when the saints are gathered, Jesus either goes back “up” to Heaven, or completes His journey by coming to earth. Does it seem logical that Jesus would have to descend part way to us to collect us? Why not give the Word from the Throne Room itself? But setting logic aside, we have only statements of fact. And both of the quoted statements tell us that when we leave here we go to be with Jesus, and remain with Him forever. No other point, especially geographical, can be extracted. Dave’s argument is from silence. Since the text does not state here which way Jesus goes, Dave assumes that He goes up, to fit the theory.
True Bereans, as the originals in Acts 17, search the Scriptures daily “to find out whether these things [be] so.” My brother Berean needs to compare Scripture with Scripture here: Look at Matthew 24:30 and 31. Compare it to the passage Dave has used in the Thessalonian letter. In both passages are clouds, angels , a trumpet, and a gathering. What distinction can be drawn? Consider :
I Thessalonians 4:16-17: “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
(By the way, if we add in more of Paul’s supposed “rapture” teaching from I Corinthians 15:52, we find that that “trumpet” is the last trumpet. That ties it in with Revelation 11:15, where the seventh and final trumpet is sounded at a time that is clearly the end of all things. There cannot be another trumpet after this. Yet Matthew 24, supposedly written about a period seven years in the future, mentions another trumpet! Something, that is, the number of trumpets, doesn’t add up.)
Matthew 24:29-31: “...after the tribulation...the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven ...they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven . And He will send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they will gather together his elect from one end of heaven to the other.”
Paul knew the teachings about the second coming of Christ. He knew that they involved angels, trumpet, clouds, and a gathering. Is it likely that, in this confused Thessalonian church, he would introduce the same terminology used for the second coming of Christ without spelling out his meaning, that this “coming” is separate from the other? (In fact he did spell it out in II Thessalonians! But not to the liking of the pre-trib scholar.)
In Acts 1:9-11, normally considered a “second coming” promise, Jesus ascends into heaven, and a cloud receives Him out of their sight. Angels promise that when Jesus descends it will be in the same manner, as John repeats: “Lo he comes with the clouds, and every eye shall see Him.” (Revelation 1:7) It fits the pattern. Jesus comes down, and in the context of Acts, He sets up His kingdom. And like a magnet drawing nails, His own are drawn to Him at that time.
In Revelation 19:11-15, another picture of the second coming is portrayed. Here is conquering King Jesus, and behind him the armies of heaven, the saints and angels of God. Now how do we learn horseback riding in the sky so quickly? How do we appear as a victorious army so quickly, without a seven-year preparation in Heaven? No instructions, no advance notice?
The answer to that question, still hidden from us, is the same as the answer to the question, “How shall we even rise up to meet Him in the air, with untried new bodies and absolutely no experience off the ground on our own power?” Somehow we will know what to do in that day. As for the ensuing battle, you will see that the believers do not have a lot to do! This is the day of God’s wrath, and God Himself will mete it out through the One He has ordained. We will watch in reverent fear mixed with joy that He has saved us from this wrath. Oh what a day!
It is my guess that at the point of the gathering there will be at least a short interval of time for Jesus to welcome us and give us a quick briefing about what is to come. The “sign of the Son of Man” is seen long enough on earth for people to get the message and mourn before the actual coming. But seven years? Look again. It’s not there.
Distinction 2: We are told that, at the rapture all believers are resurrected, whereas at the Second Coming there is no resurrection until antichrist is defeated.
This is called “begging the question,” using your preconceived conclusion as proof of your conclusion! Earlier I showed you from Revelation 19 an army behind Jesus, meeting Him in the air. They have just been resurrected and are on their way to conquer the earth. Dave cannot believe that they are fresh from the graves, so he assumes they have been with Jesus seven years and therefore are not resurrected.
But Dave’s theory calls for more than the resurrection of life and the resurrection of damnation called for by Jesus (John 5:28-29). It demands a third resurrection, for he sees one in Revelation 20:4-6.
John, relating things not always in order, but sometimes by topic, states in chapter 20 that the persons he sees are part of the first resurrection. He does not see a resurrection, but sees the ones who have been resurrected. That means that there was no resurrection seven years before, except in the Hollywood style movies of our own generation.
John is saying here that he saw thrones set up after antichrist is judged. The reign with Christ foretold here is for all those who suffer with Jesus. Romans 8:17, “If we suffer with him” we are “heirs with Christ.” The whole creation is awaiting our reign, 8:19. II Timothy 2:12, “If we endure, we shall also reign with Him.” Revelation 5:10 quotes the “elders” , those who have gone on before us, as saying, “We shall reign on the earth.”
So in talking of the thrones he brings in a description of the persecuted saints who reign with Jesus. He is not implying that the whole army following Jesus is not a resurrected entity. He is in fact in perfect harmony with Daniel 7:25-27:
“He [little horn] shall persecute the saints of the Most High...then the saints shall be given into his hand [tribulation] for a time, and times and half a time [the same three and one half years of John’s Revelation]. But the court shall be seated, [judgment]...and the greatness of the kingdoms...shall be given to the saints of the Most High [resurrection]…”
There are two resurrections coming (John 5:28-29, Revelation 20:4-5). The first, and the second. The first, when Jesus comes to earth. The second, 1000 years later, the resurrection of the damned. By calling this pre-tribulation event a “rapture”, the fact that it is a resurrection is covered up. But , added to the two resurrections of revelation 20, well, that’s just one too many.
Distinction 3: “Immortality is given believers at the rapture, but at the second coming they already obviously have it.” Here again, the normally logical Dave Hunt breaks the rules of logic by using the conclusion to prove his point. He sees it as utterly impossible for saints to be raised, glorified, “immortalized”, and coming back to earth in so short a time. He forgets, perhaps, what happened on “Resurrection Day”, commonly called Easter. Jesus in His new body began immediately to do the work God called Him to do, though He had been dead for three days. In our new bodies, made after the image of Christ, will be placed new instincts, skills, and powers. A simple flight to Jesus does not seem all that complicated for a God who can speak worlds into existence, and raise up Christ from the dead in an instant.
We shall all rise. We shall be changed. In a moment! In the twinkling of an eye. And since Dave brings up I Corinthians 15 here, we cannot resist looking at how similar this passage (vs 50-54) is to Matthew 24. Do you see it? Dead raised, caught up to be with Jesus. A trumpet! The “last trumpet” as in Revelation 11:15, where the reign of Christ on earth begins with the judgment of this world followed by the reward of the saints. Where is the distinction?
Distinction 4: “The rapture occurs during prosperity and normalcy, but the second coming takes place in the midst of great devastation.” Here our brother is referring to the portion of Matthew 24 assumed by him to be “before” the tribulation, verses 36-44 , distinct from Revelation 19, where plagues of all sort have been laid on the sons of men. In Matthew the reference is made to the days of Noah, and the very “ordinary” lifestyle they were leading when suddenly the flood came.
The argument implies that normal living does not take place in abnormal times, that there is essentially no “eating and drinking” , “marrying”, and working, and playing and all the rest, during world crises and wars. But is that conclusion justified in even the world in which we now live? What was it that President Bush called for in the days following our 9-11 tragedy? Normalcy! A quick nod to the Creator, a “moment of silence”, then back to normal lives so “the terrorists don’t win.” How many weddings were cancelled? Maybe a few. Who stopped being over-indulgent in food and drink? Maybe a few. But normal life continues, even in disaster.
But you say, magnify 9-11 many hundreds of times, to the World Wars, and to that final series of tragedies slated for the planet. Surely the desire for “normalcy” ends somewhere, and men as a unit abandon all hope in things material and cry out for God? No. Never. This incredible truth is discussed in Revelation 9:18-21. At this juncture, one-third of mankind is dead! What of the rest? They do not repent! They continue their murders, their sexual abominations, thefts, drugs. Normal. Business as usual. They will have their needs and wants met, and that is all that matters. They have no clue about a coming judgment.
Consider Egypt of old (Exodus 7-12). In the midst of their own plagues, the likes of which will be coming to all the earth one day, we read of the unbelievable hardening of the hearts of all from the one on the throne all the way down.
Truly when Jesus comes it will be after an unprecedented series of calamities, so bad that if he did not come at that moment all flesh would be annihilated. Yet in the midst of it all, men continue to defy God and ignore His ways, and are totally shocked at his coming. Normal life will thus continue until the very downfall of this present regime. No distinction here, only side-by-side truths.
Distinction 5. Brother Hunt says that a rapture occurs when the church is sleeping, but the second coming during the devastation, when Christians must obviously be wide awake. The sleeping church idea he proves only by using the parable of the virgins (Matthew 25:25) when at least half of the young ladies are quite ready to go in to the feast. There is also a problem in his evaluation of believers in the midst of devastation, in my opinion. I showed earlier from Revelation 16 that Jesus must even at the very worst of moments warn His people not to show their “nakedness” by being polluted by the world. For, as we showed above, the world, in its panic will be trying everything to stay alive and stay happy, normal, so as to ignore the evils falling around them.
How many entertainers came to fame during the [Second World] War years? Christians are warned not to sell out to the world with all its comforts and false peace, so as to avoid the harsh realities of life in this era. Though this is a message for all times, it is especially true in a society which will require the damnable mark of the beast to be able to prosper. But Revelation 16 implies that some have already slipped into the desire for a comfort zone, available now only to those who deny Christ.
Christians living in a prosperous economy even now would do well to examine their hearts and see if they too are compromising Christ in their present lifestyle. Harry Bethel of Bethel Ministries says, “Most Christians in this country are not spiritually ready to go through what is on the horizon if it is as late as we think it is. The days of the Great Tribulation will be the worst time that this world has ever seen. And this earth has seen some very bad times. Probably not many Christians will be ready to go through the Great Tribulation, but believing that you are going to be raptured out before it begins is certainly not conducive to spiritual preparation for it.”
But our point is that even at the time just before Christ’s coming there will be believers sleeping, dreaming that eternal lukewarm dream that somehow there is peace and joy in this present evil age. These wicked servants will be dealt with by one look at the descending Jesus.
Distinction 6. Now Brother Dave labels the rapture “the blessed hope”, a term used by Paul in Titus 2:13, and assures us that the second coming could not be a “blessed hope” for the few Christians who live to survive the devastation of the Tribulation. Again here is the using of a conclusion as part of his argument. The pre-tribulationists are the ones who have divided Jesus’ coming into two parts and assigned them names. The Bible nowhere does this.
But I fear there is even a greater lapse in logic by our esteemed brother in this text. It would seem to me that the greater the tragedy, the greater the hope. As Jesus wipes away the tears of Tribulation saints in Revelation 7:13-17, He is truly received as a blessed sight. How far the saints will be affected by all that goes on during these dark years is not clear. We are called to be persecuted, but not judged. God will sort that out. But we will go through it. And we will be greeted by a loving Saviour who understands, because He went through earth’s rejections. It seems inconceivable that believers snatched up before the suffering could receive a greeting that matches this one.
The mentality that our brother echoes here borders on that elitism that is prevalent among us in the Western Church. Why do we think we are not called to suffer when the Scriptures repeatedly say we are? Those that suffer with Jesus will reign with Him. But what of those who wish to be caught up before it all begins?
Again referring to Bethel ministries:
“Persecution and martyrdom is, in fact, the New testament norm… Peter wrote, ‘For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow in his steps.’ (I Peter 2:21) ...Some church leaders teach that believing in an imminent pre-trib rapture will influence Christians to live holy lives. But the Scriptures teach, referring to the heavens and earth being destroyed by fire [and not the catching up of the bride], ‘Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?…’ (II Peter 3:11-14)
“There has never been a time when so many Christians believed in an imminent pre-trib rapture and yet the twentieth-century church in America can be characterized by almost anything but holiness...Paul said, ’We glory in tribulations...tribulation worketh patience’…[Jesus said] ’In the world ye shall have tribulation…’ (John 16:33) ’We must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.’ (Acts 4:22). ’Blessed are ye, when men shall ...persecute you.’ ”
Who has more of a “blessed hope” ? The one who looks forward to no tribulation, or the one who is in trouble now, but is assured that soon the troubles will be gone? The soldier who “hopes” to escape the draft or the one who hopes for the end of the conflict in which he has participated fully? The farmer who “hopes” no bad weather will destroy his crops, or the one who has bravely fought the elements and now sees the fruits of his labor about to blossom in spite of all of nature’s blast.
Oh saints! When we sit in a dingy prison cell for our faith in Christ, when all of those whom we hold dear have been taken away, when our stomach is bloated from hunger and our body is mangled from beatings, what a blessed hope is ours! Christ shall come and release us! Christ shall come and restore our Heavenly family! Christ will come and feed us with His own manna, and wash our scars and heal our bodies and we will be with Him forever. Could anything be more of a blessed hope than that?
And is it not equally true that those least looking for that “blessed hope” today are those for whom life is comfortable and secure? Why “hope” if we have what we need already?
Distinction 7. Next Mr. Hunt implies that if antichrist must come first, it is not logical to have people looking for that blessed hope as in Titus 2:13 and Hebrews 9:28. If we know that antichrist must come first, the thought goes, how can we be excited about looking for Jesus? I believe it’s a fair question, yet I believe there is a sound answer in Scripture. I’ve talked about this earlier, but there are a couple more things that can be said.
Let’s look at brother Peter’s words in II Peter 3, as he speaks so forcefully of the coming of the day of the Lord. In the terminology of this debate, I think it is conceded that here is being discussed the final coming of Jesus. Peter here is looking toward the ultimate judgment and destruction of our earth, and he tells his people to live holy, knowing that these things are coming. Nevertheless, he exults in the fact that there will be a new heaven and a new earth once the destructive acts are past. Here is an example of one event that comes last outshining events that must come first. Peter’s readers had no less anticipation for the new world simply because the old world must be burned up to get to it.
I ask you, why can we not look for both antichrist and Christ at the same time? A child whose father has been long in the military is promised: in 2 weeks Daddy will be home! But in one week, the same child has a dentist’s appointment. There’s no way to get to Dad’s coming without that painful time in between. Even knowing of the discomfort of the Dentist’s chair, the boy’s heart is filled only with the bright prospects of Daddy’s return.
There is no contradiction here.
Trouble is coming to the planet. Incredible trouble. But we look for the Solution, Who will come in the Person of Jesus. He will lead us through the trouble to Himself. We don’t know exactly when He will come, but He will come and deliver us!
Why, even those whom God knew would have no connection to the end time are told to watch (Mark 13:37)! Why tell us all to watch when God the Father knows Jesus is not coming until that certain Day?
Oh how excited many have been through the years about the possible appearing of Jesus. But all of them died. The odds are that all of us living today will also face death before we see Jesus coming in glory to the planet. Are we then “looking for death” simply because He may not come in our “life time”? No, all of us continue to look for Jesus’ appearing, whether on this side of the grave or the other, whether on this side of antichrist or the other. It is Jesus who is the center of all the church’s attention.
Brother Hunt, am I looking for antichrist? Yes, I believe he shall precede Jesus, but I am looking for Jesus! Will I die before He comes? Quite possibly, but still I look for Jesus! We who are told to watch, know that some negative thing may indeed stand in the way, but we still watch. Watching is an attitude of the heart. It’s the prayer mindset of a true believer. It’s not a fearful Damocles’ sword hanging over us, it’s an awareness of hope. No matter how bad things get, whether we must suffer or die or watch antichrist rise, whether the world goes crazy or nature fails, we still have the blessed hope that Jesus will come and set all in order.
Distinction 8. The next suggestion is that it is not proper to pray with John, “Come Lord Jesus,” if we know He is not coming for seven years (at least). This seems to make Dave imply, in my estimation, that when we pray, we are changing God’s plans. No, rather, when we pray, it must be in accord with God’s will. That is, Jesus, I know you are coming, and you are welcome here! Your will be done, Come as you plan to come, Lord Jesus!
Anyone who has prayed that prayer over the last 2000 years, including John the Revelator, understood that it might not be answered physically and immediately. But the prayer went up anyway, and continues to rise to Heaven. To suggest that a prayer is invalid because God has a fixed moment for its answer is to suggest that our desires should supersede His.
When we pray for healing, He hears us. Or for financial blessing. Or for deliverance. Or for the salvation of family members. He hears. But the answer may be down the road. Our knowing that we must wait upon God does not stop us from crying out to Him, yea, day and night ( Luke 18:1-5).
The Spirit and the Bride call out for these many years, Come, Lord Jesus. But He doesn’t come. But He will. When it is time. For now, the world is in a mess, the world needs the Saviour. O come, O come, Emmanuel! Keep praying it saints!
Distinction 9. Dave Hunt assumes, lastly, that the judgment seat of Christ and the marriage of the Lamb must take place in Heaven and with the Church present, and before His coming to earth. Yet he can offer no proof of the location and timing of these events, for, of course, such proof does not exist. Romans 14:10 and II Corinthians 5:10 simply state that there will be a time when saints stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Revelation 19:7-8 describe the wedding, or at least the announcement of same. The marriage has come. The wife is ready. Blessed are those invited. But wait! Some serious work to do first, following this announcement. Now the church descends with Jesus (Revelation 19:7-21) to the earth, taking its first step toward the announced supper. There, as described by prophets and apostles, the Kingdom is set up after Christ’s victory over His enemies. Then Jesus keeps His promise to drink the fruit of the vine with His followers (Matthew 26:29). It seems to me that this is a more logical arrangement of details. But for a “proof text” that this will happen, neither the pre– or post– people can find one. It simply is not there.
Seeing Mr. Hunt show such confidence in a non-existent detail of Scripture was perhaps the most disappointing aspect of this entire review.
